.
Feedback

Voter ID Laws: Necessary or Likely to Disenfranchise Voters?

As the November election approaches, the arguments for and against strict voter identity laws heat up.

Election season is heating up, and so is the debate on voter identity. One side of the issue argues that stringent voter identity laws are necessary so as not to dilute the vote of legitimate voters. The other side argues that the strict controls have the effect of disenfranchising legitimate voters. 

A recent story in the Huffington Post cites examples from both sides of the argument, ultimately claiming that it appears more legitimate votes are disenfranchised than fraudulent ones prevented.

More than two dozen states have some form of ID requirements, and 11 of those passed new rules over the past two years. According to Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp's website, voters are required to show one of several forms of photo ID:

  • Any valid state or federal government issued photo ID, including a free Voter ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)
  • A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired.
  • Valid employee photo ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state.
  • Valid U.S. Passport ID.
  • Valid U.S. Military photo ID.
  • Valid Tribal photo ID.

Republicans have been the driving force behind this, claiming that in previous years convicted felons and the deceased have voted. Democrats and voting rights groups claim the ID laws suppress votes, particularly among the elderly, poor and minorities. These groups tend to lean Democratic.

In each of these cases, the numbers are not particularly high when you look at the big picture. But when you take into account that the 2000 presidential race was decided by a 537-vote margin in Florida, it’s not hard to see why this is such a hot-button issue right now.

Will tougher voter ID laws ensure legitimate elections or disenfranchise legitimate voters? Tell us in the comments.

Chris Roberts July 13, 2012 at 02:12 pm
If it's on the internet it must be true.
L A Hays July 13, 2012 at 03:07 pm
@Chris Roberts: I stated my solution to voter fraud: clean up the voter roles. And I'm all for whatever community organization might be required to assist those without a photo ID to obtain one; a larger active voter base might improve the quality of those running for office. This should be done routinely. If there is some conspiracy to commit voter fraud (doubtful), those individuals should have no problem finding a document forger to help them out. The conspiracy probably already has one on the payroll.
Richard Pellegrino July 13, 2012 at 03:08 pm
As I said it is a non-problem which does not require the heavy handed actions, reactions and "laws" which are like using a sledge hammer to pound in a two penny nail. And, in light of the demographics targeted, these actions serve to undermine the diversity of this society and the very democratic process we cherish. Some good research on the issue can be found at :
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/chicken-little-voting-booth-non-existent-problem-non-citizen-%E2%80%9Cvoter-fraud%E2%80%9D And I am sorry, since race is heavily involved in these laws, white people should have no business legislating on what primarily affects black people and other people of color. That is a smack in the face of all the progress which has been made regarding voting rights.
Just A Grunt July 13, 2012 at 03:58 pm
On the one hand we have proven fact that a certain amount of voter fraud actually exists, regardless of the rationalization saying that it is small. Any voter fraud is too much. On the other hand we have a hypothetical argument that it will depress voter turnout among certain groups. It is hypothetical since it can not be proven, and in fact according to Secretary of State for Georgia records the opposite actually occurred in the most recent election. So who is creating a boogey man?
So let's try this. Pass the laws then review the empirical data and make an informed decision. Also if I was in the group of people that all the opponents claim will be most affected I would be highly upset because obviously they also think you are stupid, although they don't say that to your face.
Chris Roberts July 13, 2012 at 04:13 pm
Richard, you say "And I am sorry, since race is heavily involved in these laws, white people should have no business legislating on what primarily affects black people and other people of color."
WOW!! Imagine if that was the case in things such as slavery, women's rights, child abuse...etc. I'm glad people representing this country have the ability to make laws that impact others that aren't just like them.
Richard Pellegrino July 13, 2012 at 05:06 pm
Chris, I am sorry but you don't have a good grasp of the history of change relating to the groups and issues you mentioned: I have been part of these human and civil rights movements for change and the reforms came only after the affected groups engaged in extensive protest, civil disobedience, and sometimes loss of life to get white legislators and elected officials to act. Even President Kennedy, whom I liked, did not act regarding civil rights and Jim Crow until he was forced to when children took to the streets in Birmingham and were brutally attacked.
And Just A Grunt: no, that is not how it should work where human and civil rights and democracy are concerned--before a law is made the affected parties should be consulted and their opinions taken into consideration. Otherwise it is akin to Jim Crow and other so-called "laws". Show me where this process was done regarding voter suppression laws....it was rammed through by one party seeking to secure their votes in elections. It is just like re-districting. That is the reality. (By the way, I am not a Democrat but an independent and if they did it I would be crying foul too and I do when they engage in re-districting.)
S Bailey July 13, 2012 at 05:12 pm
As one who has been working as an Election Poll Official for many years, I can say the Voter ID Law is not a heavy burden. Even if you don't bring any Valid ID with you, you can still Vote. You are given a specific time & instructions on how to validate your Identity. Since the precincts that I've worked are heavily minority populated, it is obvious that the suggestion the ID Laws are targeted toward those groups is seriously flawed. Perhaps the most apparent hypocrisy of those who criticize the Voter ID Laws, since they are Democrats, you have to show proper ID to enter the White House, to see your own Senator or Congressperson, the Democrat Party Convention, to see Attorney General Eric Holder, fly on any commercial airlines in the USA.......etc. It is a LIE that the Law is a burden on minorities. Simply put & irrefutable.
John A Delves July 13, 2012 at 06:09 pm
Mayor Dailey of that northern city once said,"Idont care who votes and for whom they vote, I am just concerned about who does the counting". The discussion was really getting way down. If anyone can get on a plane without ID, they get to vote with no ID. If anyone can cash a check without ID then they can vote with no ID. The list could go on and on but lets stop. Lets get real. All people no matter what their race religion and or national origin have to produce ID so its not a selective law. Its a law to ensure that only folk who are truly eligible to vote get to vote. Were every group of people that make up the melting pot of Americana involved in the making of the laws? I dont know. I was not asked about it but have to produce ID. Getting a drivers license I have to produce ID and I was not consulted about that one either.
Chris Roberts July 13, 2012 at 06:31 pm
@Richard, It's not that I don't have a grasp of history. I was simply pointing out how your statement was extreme, impractical, and promotes segregation.
John A Delves July 13, 2012 at 06:32 pm
Hi there, this just came into my email. Its not about the voter card but does explain why some of these things have changed. Not trying to convert your feelings but it does show the root of some of these things is in Washington DC.
Rep. Shaw addresses Georgia's new driver's license requirements In response to the concerns of numerous constituents, I want to make all residents of House District 176 aware of the new federally mandated requirements that have forced the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS) to begin requiring new documentation for obtaining and renewing driver's licenses. Under the new federally mandated SAFFE DL (Secure Automated Fast Friendly Easier Driver's License) Program that went into effect on July 1, Georgians wishing to renew their driver's license must provide documentation proving their identity, full legal name, current residential address, and Social Security number. I have received numerous inquiries about the new requirements for driver's licenses. It is frustrating and very inconvenient for all of us. Thankfully, this is not "the new way of renewals." This is just a one-time hurdle. Once you have proven in person that you are who you say you are, you can revert back to online license renewals. I thank you for being patient as we strive to comply with this federally mandated law. The SAFFE DL program is mandated by the Federal Real ID Act of 2005.
Richard Pellegrino July 13, 2012 at 06:56 pm
Writers Bailey & Delves: This is not about whether it is good to have an ID or not in order to vote or otherwise...I think anyone can agree that that is good in and of itself...it is about 1) whether it is a difficulty or burden for certain populations of people to get an id ...here is a good story about that but again I don't think that people who are not black, minority or poor should determine that (it is, to me, the utmost arrogance to do so when one is not in that group) http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0711/In-Pennsylvania-the-Rosa-Parks-of-voter-ID-faces-down-GOP-voter-suppression
2) It is also whether it is a massive waste of taxpayers money and legislators time to come up with controversial laws that are a solution to non-problems, and even worse when those laws target already marginalized communities in our society...when there are much more pressing needs to be addressed (like the draconian anti-immigrant "laws" which are draining our coffers attacking people who are helping our country and coffers). 3) We should, as a democratic society, making it easier to participate in democracy and voting--not more difficult.
Richard Pellegrino July 13, 2012 at 06:56 pm
4) If this is so good for the country why are only Republicans pushing it......hmmm, something smells there of political pandering and expediency...again, on the backs of the already oppressed and marginalized (just like the draconian anti-immigrant laws). This is a pattern and it appears it is always targeting minorities. Maybe Republicans should ask themselves the question: why are we so white and why don't we reflect the diversity which is America. That is the bottom line.
5) Aside from anyone's opinions, the groups on the ground who work with voting, like the respected League of Women's Voters, state that these laws are not necessary and are suppressing the vote and their ability to register people.
Richard Pellegrino July 13, 2012 at 07:06 pm
Ah Chris, now we are getting somewhere...that's exactly what I am trying to say is that when white people who think they somehow know what it is like to be black or minority in America make the statements in the blog and the laws which affect them without consulting them and really trying to hear and understand their story (which, believe me, as a white male with a black wife and family and many black close friends and colleagues, does not come easy and takes a lot of patience, which I have not mastered yet after 30 years of trying) then we come off , using your words, as "extreme, impractical, and promoting segregation." AS whites we have always been privileged, have an inherent sense of superiority ingrained in us (no matter how Christian, open-minded, etc), and think we know when we don't have a clue...and often act and speak on that lack of knowledge with wreckless regard. These laws and many other similar laws and attitudes regarding them are just one symptom of that and I can go on with millions every day. Until we deal with this issue we will not experience America as it is and meant to be--unity in diversity--and will truly be segregated in mind and spirit, if not in body.
Chris Roberts July 13, 2012 at 07:30 pm
Richard, maybe I'm not following you. It sounds like before a law is passed that impacts a black person every non-black lawmaker must consult with all blacks or their leader?
That's what's impractical to me. You can't poll everybody that may be impacted by a law to get their opinion. Plus, I'm sure many blacks would be offended by the fact that you assume because they are black they all share the same circumstances. I also don't want someone that represents just men, or just women, or just Latinos, or just blacks or just whites. That promotes segregation. If I understand you correctly, what about your position isn't extreme, impractical, or promoting segregation?
Kenya July 14, 2012 at 04:03 am
Wow Richard you have lots of stamina!
Does everybody in favor of this think fraud is widespread enough to warrant pushing this through right now when there are lots of pressing issues competing for our legislators' attention? I can appreciate we all have different perspectives, so I'm curious. Of course we have to show IDs for lots of things, but plenty of people function without them. I've never heard anyone talk about selling votes for beer, but I won't tell someone else they're lying if they have. I can understand some people don't know someone that doesn't have ID or someone for whom getting one would be a real problem, but I do. This will not stop a person intent on fraud. I can get an ID in the walmart parking lot for $100. These measures don't stop actual criminals, just honest people. What happened to Republicans being for less regulation and smaller government? How about we work identity theft first. I bet that's something that has hurt way more people. It seems like voting is being treated as a privilege and not a RIGHT.
L A Hays July 14, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Welcome to the debate, Kenya. I agree with you that we have a lot more pressing issues in this country right now that trump the voter id law; but it does present a nice little diversion right here before elections begin, doesn't it. I've already asked the question: Why now? People need food, homes, and jobs; money managers are robbing their customers blind; I see a lot more just in metro Atlanta about child pornography and kids killing kids than I do about instances of voter fraud. When I go to the polls this year, with my photo ID, I'll be thinking hard about the priorities of our incumbents and those running to replace them.
S Bailey July 14, 2012 at 03:00 pm
The only reason it is an Issue ...is because the Democrats want it to be an Issue. It was a Chicago Saying... Vote Early & Vote Often.
The above information regarding the required ID's does not include those that are allowed in a Federal Office Election. There are some 11 forms of ID allowed, a few of which are very generous.....as in a Utility Bill or such. Since every person ...black, white, yellow or purple has to have electricity, water & maybe gas, a utility bill shouldn't be a big hassle, especially when one gets one 12 times a year. I think it's absolutely silly for one to consider an ID be required for voting to be a partisan issue, when voting is one of the most important duties of a citizen. And I have to ask, how many people do you personally know, that doesn't have any kind of Identification ??? Here in the 21st Century, in one of the most technologically advanced nation on this planet....... I say gimme-a-break, either you are a shill for a particular political party or just plain ignorant of real facts & real life. SB
Richard Pellegrino July 14, 2012 at 03:33 pm
Sorry S Bailey...there are a patchwork of different id laws from state to state with all kinds of different and confusing hoops to jump through and you are the one who is out of touch with reality...the reality of millions of poor people in this country who don't have ID's , utilities, birth certificates, are homeless ad who don't the money to get them. If you would like I can introduce you to groups here in Cobb who are working with them every day and we definitely need more workers to help them not only get ID's to vote but to survive. If you are willing to get off your high horse and volunteer to help them I will be happy to facilitate that...contact me at pilgrim1@mindspring.com. Regarding party politics...everyone knows (including many of the Republicans who admit) that these voter id laws are nothing more than political ploys to suppress voter turnout of traditional Democratic voters...nothing more and nothing less.
S Bailey July 15, 2012 at 02:50 am
I really don't care about other states, I don't live in other states. As for my high horse, I didn't realize we were going to make this personal.....so no thanks, I DO volunteer as I am retired. But I have always considered it a civic duty to perform as a functionary for the election process.
I will say this, if you are too dumb to get a Free ID, then I'm quite sure you are too dumb to Vote. That's all I have to say, as I do not wish to denigrate this whole issue into an insult session. Good luck on the upcoming election, I sincerely hope & pray you get the leaders you deserve. SB
Richard Pellegrino July 15, 2012 at 04:23 am
Sorry S Bailey...this is the United States of America...not of Georgia.. but I do applaud you for your work to facilitate the election process but in terms of being retired...I hope I never retire from helping the less fortunate. And as far as getting personal...you are the one who called anyone with a different opinion than yours "liars" and called others "dumb". That is hardly a non-personal way to discuss an issue--there is always your truth, my truth, and "the truth" --which hopefully lies somewhere in the middle. And it is a personal issue....which affects millions who never had the right to vote in my lifetime and therefore recently got that right after often life and death struggles. Then, after they got it, Georgia and other southern states, tried to take it away with poll taxes and other restrictions--again, in my lifetime under Jim Crow. And many of the same folk who are pushing these laws are the descendants of those who supported Jim Crow and often use the same rhetoric. So unless you walked a thousand miles in their shoes (those who were oppressed, considered less than human, and were under attack and still are) , or are willing to do so (it is never too late, however aged one is) then really your opinion is skewed and flawed, as is that of the legislators who rammed these "laws" through.
Albert July 15, 2012 at 01:39 pm
For Republicans or Conservative that say they are against a lot of regulations and for freedom. They sure spend a lot of their time tring to take freedoms away and regulate people. No wonder people like Ron Paul exist. These new republicans that became republicans after 1964 sure do love big goverment.
Albert July 15, 2012 at 01:53 pm
Instead of trying to regulate peoples access to guns that aid in killing people. Their spending their time trying to regulate peoples access to voting that frees people.
I think the would say that there are enough laws on the books to regulate guns. Lets apply the laws that we have. Let them say the same things about peoples right to vote. We the people know a hypocital party when we see one.
S Bailey July 15, 2012 at 06:44 pm
It is readily apparent that some do not understand the concept of debate. One must bring their thoughts along with proof to the debate. Anecdotal references of one instance of a person saying this or that is not proof. Further I would suggest that anyone that classifies MILLIONS of people in this country as being without the ability to Vote is disingenuous & specious. I cannot believe that One Person has personally interviewed Millions & determined that each & every one was prevented from Voting simply because they did not possess a "proper" ID. Further, that the people you did reference....the Homeless & such...are not mainstream America...no matter what color....but rather those on the fringe of society. It is well-known that many Homeless are substance abusers, Felons, Sex Offenders & others that choose to separate themselves from normal society. Many of these would never vote, either by choice or by law.
We are all people of color.....but more importantly, we are Human Beings...thus government by those elected to represent us, is our choice, our responsibility & our duty. To castigate those who establish rules for all, simply because they are a different color would return us to the days before the Civil War. Some referenced Jim Crow Laws & the Poll Tax....these Laws were overturned in the 1950's & 60's. The people who enacted them & a majority of those affected are long time dead & buried. So mentioning those laws are just as specious as well. SB
S Bailey July 15, 2012 at 06:50 pm
Some people ALWAYS fear change, because it removes them from their comfort zone & it causes them to think. Sometimes they start thinking incorrectly partly because they are guilty of thinking everything nefarious is of those changes.
I did not call you a liar, but referenced that people who use blanket phrases use lies to further their arguments. So which would you admit, that you are a liar or that you use lies? I tried to bring logic, past experience, education & wisdom to this debate, not feelings. Feelings are not logical nor are they founded in good sense or common sense. Feelings are personal but cannot always be good for society. A rapist commits his crimes to feel good, yet it has a disastrous effect on his victims. So merely feeling good about something does not validate your arguments. SB
Richard Pellegrino July 16, 2012 at 01:43 pm
SB, I see we agree on some things....like bringing facts to a discussion or debate...if you see in my posts I am the only one who has quoted other sources, some with both sides of the argument. And yes, there is definitely fear of change...fear of the growing diversity of America and fear by the white power structure that they are losing their grip...with Georgia rated recently the most corrupt state....http://savannahnow.com/news/2012-03-19/national-study-says-georgia-most-corruption-prone-state#.UAQX8pFYp-w....your description of the homeless may more aptly apply to the gang inside the GA Capitol rather than outside on the streets---yes, I mean our governor and legislators ...if you have spent any time there as I have you will see what a nuthouse it is and the corruption in action-) And your statement about lies, or blanket phrases of lies--if it applies to any statement here then it applies to all, including yours, for as I said, there is always, in any discussion, "your truth", "my truth", and "the truth". I don't think you would claim that your views are "the truth" and the only truth unless so help me you are "God". And I will agree also that we are all human beings but all people of color...if I remember correctly in our own Constitution and in practice in my lifetime certain people of color were not afforded full human status and if you ask them those practices and attitudes still prevail to a great extent-again don't presume till you have walked in their shoes.
S Bailey July 16, 2012 at 08:05 pm
Again, you attack personally. I tired of this greatly. You do not know me nor my past. I know that I do not share many of your thoughts & only agree with you on some superficial topics. Corruption is anywhere you look, whether in Congress, the White House, under the Gold Dome or in your own home. I noticed that you failed to talk about the points that I made but rather tangented off to attack some of things I did reference. Diffusion & misdirection is a common tool of those that cannot bring substance to an argument.
As to the Constitution....you failed to point out either by mistake or intent...the Constitution is a Living Document that can be modified and has been modified to reflect the current times. AND not all minorities were slaves or servants from the beginning of this country. Even whites came to this continent as Indentured Servants (a polite name for slavery). No race has been completely blameless or exempt from oppression. We are a Society, made up of many nationalities, we have been since the beginning. We will continue to be. Your own personal divisiveness will only serve to disenfranchise those who buy into the false premise that they are oppressed. I'm oppressed, you are oppressed, my neighbor is oppressed, your neighbor is oppressed.....where does it stop ??? Under your thinking, it never does. I choose to be a 'glass is half-full' kind of guy, you, on the other hand, sees only that the glass is half empty, but someone never got a sip.
Kenya July 16, 2012 at 08:48 pm
LA, exactly! The best way to let our leaders know how we feel about this is with our votes. It only takes a few to turn an election around and how nice would it be if we actually got more people to turn out and this backfired. Richard, I'll be emailing you to find ways I can help. You should post volunteer opps on Patch too.
I thought I asked a simple question on whether this was genuinely a top priority for supporters, but I guess the answer is no since I was just called a political shill or 'plain ignorant' after that but didn't get a straight answer. LOL!
Pam J July 16, 2012 at 09:12 pm
Well, I look at this way - if you don't have to show any ID to vote, who's to say that someone you know wants to vote for a different person than you. And that person knows that you aren't going to vote till later in the day. Then that person goes to the voting place and they say that they are you and the person "manning" the table gives them the ballot and they vote the person they want. Then the real person shows up later and, gosh, I'm sorry, but you have already voted. Maybe that doesn't happen much, but in smaller jurisdictions, it will only take a few times to change an election.
S Bailey July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm
It HAS happened.....rare occasions to be sure, but it has happened at Precincts in South Cobb. One person has voted under another person's name & then that person has come in to vote. I know because I was there & had to investigate what happened & who actually voted. Even with a system in place mistakes can be made. So gearing up a system to Insure that YOU get to vote, seems to me, to be the proper thing.....& a non-issue, except to those that choose to "use" the system to their own nefarious intents.
If you feel that you were singled out as a political shill or plain ignorant....perhaps you should rethink & restate what you wanted, instead of taking it as an insult. SB
Richard Pellegrino July 18, 2012 at 01:24 pm
Hi Kenya and other friends:
Feel free to contact me at pilgrim1@mindspring.com to get on my email list for volunteer opportunities with the Cobb United for Change Coalition (which is composed of many human & civil rights orgs). Right now we have voter registration & get out the vote initiatives, human rights "report cards" for candidates, as well as other initiatives like police oversight and home foreclosure defense, aid for the poor. (Working on our website now and will post once complete.)

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from South Cobb Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Monica DeLancy June 17, 2013 at 02:37 pm
Please encourage residents to attend CCt flex bus meeting at the South Cobb Library on Tuesday JuneRead More 18t 6pm-8pm. The first meeting only had 11 residents there and none were bus riders. I have encouraged residents that have teens to attend meeting because this help our teens get to jobs or social activities and not just hang out in the neighborhood. We must also plan for the future and underswtrand that just because you are driving today, it may not be the case all the time. Your situation can change with a blink of an eye.
Charles Schwable April 25, 2013 at 01:02 pm
This has happened for over 40 years nationwide even in my home state of Florida, kids runaway toRead More California and Florida to strike it rich and get stuck in darkness of prostitution Time to sound the alarm is 40 years too late!